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	<title>Comments on: Class of 2009</title>
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	<link>http://listics.com/200810024408</link>
	<description>“History may only rarely be written by the losers, but it is always written by the writers.” -- David Weinberger</description>
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		<title>By: Frank Paynter</title>
		<link>http://listics.com/200810024408/comment-page-1#comment-59237</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Paynter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 15:28:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://listics.com/?p=4408#comment-59237</guid>
		<description>Hank exits with George, and maybe Ben can go as well.  There are brilliant economists around who are not caught up in the &quot;kill government&quot; movement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hank exits with George, and maybe Ben can go as well.  There are brilliant economists around who are not caught up in the &#8220;kill government&#8221; movement.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Golby</title>
		<link>http://listics.com/200810024408/comment-page-1#comment-59233</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Golby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 12:48:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://listics.com/?p=4408#comment-59233</guid>
		<description>&quot;... if we can get the class of 2009 energized to work on the issues in an Obama administration, I think there is no need to fear. &quot;

That&#039;s pretty much the bottom line, Frank. And Obama administration can only be infinitely better than that which we have (for we have all had Bush in spadefuls) and as much better than that which we might have.

I still can&#039;t wrap my head around the notion that, not only are Palin and McCain the opposing ticket, they could conceivably steal the prize. 

Today&#039;s global market indicators will then be beyond being the stuff of fond memory. None of us will survive the crash (that is if we survive this one). And the thing is, given a potential eight years, the problems now besetting us are not insurmountable. Left to run their course though, they will bury us.

May 2009 be a year of trying to distinguish or extricate Wall Street from Washington and vice versa. I mean, who the hell does Hank work for anyway?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230; if we can get the class of 2009 energized to work on the issues in an Obama administration, I think there is no need to fear. &#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s pretty much the bottom line, Frank. And Obama administration can only be infinitely better than that which we have (for we have all had Bush in spadefuls) and as much better than that which we might have.</p>
<p>I still can&#8217;t wrap my head around the notion that, not only are Palin and McCain the opposing ticket, they could conceivably steal the prize. </p>
<p>Today&#8217;s global market indicators will then be beyond being the stuff of fond memory. None of us will survive the crash (that is if we survive this one). And the thing is, given a potential eight years, the problems now besetting us are not insurmountable. Left to run their course though, they will bury us.</p>
<p>May 2009 be a year of trying to distinguish or extricate Wall Street from Washington and vice versa. I mean, who the hell does Hank work for anyway?</p>
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		<title>By: Frank Paynter</title>
		<link>http://listics.com/200810024408/comment-page-1#comment-59160</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Paynter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2008 19:24:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://listics.com/?p=4408#comment-59160</guid>
		<description>Jon,

&lt;a href=&quot;http://1984news.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://1984news.com/&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jon,</p>
<p><a href="http://1984news.com/" rel="nofollow">http://1984news.com/</a></p>
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		<title>By: JH</title>
		<link>http://listics.com/200810024408/comment-page-1#comment-59158</link>
		<dc:creator>JH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2008 18:29:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://listics.com/?p=4408#comment-59158</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been reading about the growing corporatism and incipient fascism for 20 + years ... and even played my small bit part in supporting its evolution as a management consultant for some time.  Well, it is actually happening and is in its later stages of takeover now, I think.  Welcome to the plutocracy Paul Krugman warned about 7 or 8 years ago.

50+ years of conditioning as a &quot;nice&quot; person makes me keep on wanting to do something useful, say something positive, have some ambition and hope for better times and things on the horizon.  But everything I see suggests otherwise.

My (I think rational) head tells me things are so complex, so dependent upon models and structures from yesteryear, and so camouflaged by dross and intentional feints and sleights-of-hand, that the smartest thing to do is to stay under every radar and plan for a simple life that may support some form of survival.  Or maybe move, leading a low-level bohemian life style as an ex-pat in a small apartment somewhere like Amsterdam or Barcelona.

I don&#039;t know how much longer I can take the full-bore unreality of what&#039;s happening in North America.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been reading about the growing corporatism and incipient fascism for 20 + years &#8230; and even played my small bit part in supporting its evolution as a management consultant for some time.  Well, it is actually happening and is in its later stages of takeover now, I think.  Welcome to the plutocracy Paul Krugman warned about 7 or 8 years ago.</p>
<p>50+ years of conditioning as a &#8220;nice&#8221; person makes me keep on wanting to do something useful, say something positive, have some ambition and hope for better times and things on the horizon.  But everything I see suggests otherwise.</p>
<p>My (I think rational) head tells me things are so complex, so dependent upon models and structures from yesteryear, and so camouflaged by dross and intentional feints and sleights-of-hand, that the smartest thing to do is to stay under every radar and plan for a simple life that may support some form of survival.  Or maybe move, leading a low-level bohemian life style as an ex-pat in a small apartment somewhere like Amsterdam or Barcelona.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know how much longer I can take the full-bore unreality of what&#8217;s happening in North America.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank Paynter</title>
		<link>http://listics.com/200810024408/comment-page-1#comment-59133</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Paynter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 23:27:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://listics.com/?p=4408#comment-59133</guid>
		<description>I have a little speech I give called &quot;The War Against Everything.&quot;  I agree fully that the appropriate use of military is police actions. But even as far back as Korea, nominally a UN &quot;police action,&quot; the politicians spun it as a war so indeed we lost -- or at least we did not &quot;win.&quot;  The &quot;War on Terrorism&quot; is a particularly self serving usage.  Our War on Iraq turned into a War in Iraq, and while it&#039;s billed as a scene in the play titled &quot;War on Terrorism,&quot; it&#039;s really just a battle in the &quot;War for Western Corporate Control of the Planet&#039;s Resources (WWCCPR).&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a little speech I give called &#8220;The War Against Everything.&#8221;  I agree fully that the appropriate use of military is police actions. But even as far back as Korea, nominally a UN &#8220;police action,&#8221; the politicians spun it as a war so indeed we lost &#8212; or at least we did not &#8220;win.&#8221;  The &#8220;War on Terrorism&#8221; is a particularly self serving usage.  Our War on Iraq turned into a War in Iraq, and while it&#8217;s billed as a scene in the play titled &#8220;War on Terrorism,&#8221; it&#8217;s really just a battle in the &#8220;War for Western Corporate Control of the Planet&#8217;s Resources (WWCCPR).&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Betty Jo</title>
		<link>http://listics.com/200810024408/comment-page-1#comment-59132</link>
		<dc:creator>Betty Jo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 20:13:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://listics.com/?p=4408#comment-59132</guid>
		<description>Good comment. I am struck by the point that but for perhaps Granada we&#039;ve not won a war since 1945. 

Seems to me that since then, the Bomb   has made &#039;police action&#039; rather than &#039;war&#039; the only viable, necessary and appropriate use of force in pursuit of civil society and a rule of law. 

Those like John McCain,  who speak of &quot;Victory&quot; have, in my view, completely missed that fundamental change in  politics and international relations. 

Whether economic, diplomatic or martial, police action is, of course, an entirely unsatisfying activity. 

It&#039;s not a roulette table where one might stake a sense of luckiness against some glorious gain, certain that even with loss, it won&#039;t be any worse than what you&#039;ve already been through. 

Police action isn&#039;t exciting, it isn&#039;t &#039;fair&#039;. 

Police actions are like washing the dinner dishes, you clean &#039;em, put &#039;em away, take out the garbage and then start all over again doing the same thing the next day. The task is not even entertaining enough to give back a grin for the effort.

And so instead, they speak of War - War on Drugs, War on Cancer, War on Terrorism, War on Poverty. With &quot;War&quot; might come &quot;Victory&quot;. Nothing like those taps on the mat to provide closure to the conflict. 

And yet, the very use of the terms War and Victory lead instead to  the frustrations of &quot;fighting with our hands tied&quot;, or &quot;not enough troops, or resolve, or funding&quot; to win. When, in fact, all we might reasonably expect on any of these &#039;fronts&#039; is to hold some lines until something else changes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good comment. I am struck by the point that but for perhaps Granada we&#8217;ve not won a war since 1945. </p>
<p>Seems to me that since then, the Bomb   has made &#8216;police action&#8217; rather than &#8216;war&#8217; the only viable, necessary and appropriate use of force in pursuit of civil society and a rule of law. </p>
<p>Those like John McCain,  who speak of &#8220;Victory&#8221; have, in my view, completely missed that fundamental change in  politics and international relations. </p>
<p>Whether economic, diplomatic or martial, police action is, of course, an entirely unsatisfying activity. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s not a roulette table where one might stake a sense of luckiness against some glorious gain, certain that even with loss, it won&#8217;t be any worse than what you&#8217;ve already been through. </p>
<p>Police action isn&#8217;t exciting, it isn&#8217;t &#8216;fair&#8217;. </p>
<p>Police actions are like washing the dinner dishes, you clean &#8216;em, put &#8216;em away, take out the garbage and then start all over again doing the same thing the next day. The task is not even entertaining enough to give back a grin for the effort.</p>
<p>And so instead, they speak of War &#8211; War on Drugs, War on Cancer, War on Terrorism, War on Poverty. With &#8220;War&#8221; might come &#8220;Victory&#8221;. Nothing like those taps on the mat to provide closure to the conflict. </p>
<p>And yet, the very use of the terms War and Victory lead instead to  the frustrations of &#8220;fighting with our hands tied&#8221;, or &#8220;not enough troops, or resolve, or funding&#8221; to win. When, in fact, all we might reasonably expect on any of these &#8216;fronts&#8217; is to hold some lines until something else changes.</p>
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