Comments on: Crisis at Stormhoek Vineyards http://listics.com/200803103984 Frank Paynter's Voice and Vision... Tue, 02 Dec 2024 20:23:36 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Frank Paynter http://listics.com/200803103984#comment-53639 Frank Paynter Fri, 14 Mar 2024 14:05:58 +0000 http://listics.com/200803103984#comment-53639 Thanks for sharing your perspective, Catherine. Any insights you can offer regarding the collapse of Orbital will of course be appreciated. Thanks for sharing your perspective, Catherine. Any insights you can offer regarding the collapse of Orbital will of course be appreciated.

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By: Catherine http://listics.com/200803103984#comment-53632 Catherine Fri, 14 Mar 2024 05:10:54 +0000 http://listics.com/200803103984#comment-53632 Excuse me sir. I have nothing to do with either Jason nor Hugh anymore - i really don't care what happens to Stormhoek and i would appreciate being disassociated with the brand - if i wanted to be i would have gone to work for Origin. Best, Catherine. Excuse me sir. I have nothing to do with either Jason nor Hugh anymore - i really don’t care what happens to Stormhoek and i would appreciate being disassociated with the brand - if i wanted to be i would have gone to work for Origin. Best, Catherine.

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By: stii.za.net » Blog Archive » The REAL Stormhoek vs Origin/Orbital Saga update http://listics.com/200803103984#comment-53612 stii.za.net » Blog Archive » The REAL Stormhoek vs Origin/Orbital Saga update Thu, 13 Mar 2024 07:10:44 +0000 http://listics.com/200803103984#comment-53612 [...] comment was made by a certain Oliver Shulman on this post: I’ve spent some time going over some of the posts lamenting the collapse of Orbital, the U.K. [...] [...] comment was made by a certain Oliver Shulman on this post: I’ve spent some time going over some of the posts lamenting the collapse of Orbital, the U.K. [...]

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By: Shane http://listics.com/200803103984#comment-53595 Shane Wed, 12 Mar 2024 11:38:31 +0000 http://listics.com/200803103984#comment-53595 Thanks guys; I think this hits the nail on the head - so to speak. I hope that we will be able to release a post on this subject in the next day or two to respond to some of the now "disputed facts" around the collapse, ownership of brands etc. Watch our space. Unforunately it will be a pissing contest of note as it is just our word against Jasons and what has been held up as the "convenient [at the time] truth" with the new owners. PS. I love the cartoon you used. The other one would be "Change the world or go home". I can only assume that Hugh's silence is the fact that he has taken the "home" option on this one. Thanks guys;

I think this hits the nail on the head - so to speak. I hope that we will be able to release a post on this subject in the next day or two to respond to some of the now “disputed facts” around the collapse, ownership of brands etc.

Watch our space. Unforunately it will be a pissing contest of note as it is just our word against Jasons and what has been held up as the “convenient [at the time] truth” with the new owners.

PS. I love the cartoon you used. The other one would be “Change the world or go home”. I can only assume that Hugh’s silence is the fact that he has taken the “home” option on this one.

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By: Jon H. http://listics.com/200803103984#comment-53579 Jon H. Tue, 11 Mar 2024 23:00:59 +0000 http://listics.com/200803103984#comment-53579 That last para is excellent advice, Frank .. and Hugh would do an enormous amount to increase / sustain his credibility and his notions of global micro-branding and such were he to follow it, lending needed maturity to his arguably creative insights into marketing things online. And yes, I agree with your initial assessment about Oliver's potential for interesting blogging. That last para is excellent advice, Frank .. and Hugh would do an enormous amount to increase / sustain his credibility and his notions of global micro-branding and such were he to follow it, lending needed maturity to his arguably creative insights into marketing things online.

And yes, I agree with your initial assessment about Oliver’s potential for interesting blogging.

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By: Frank Paynter http://listics.com/200803103984#comment-53573 Frank Paynter Tue, 11 Mar 2024 17:13:16 +0000 http://listics.com/200803103984#comment-53573 I think the SPAM algorithm also counts links, Oliver. I found your contribution in my moderation queue this morning. Thank you for the extensive comment! Scoop Fisker couldn't have done as well. (Sorry Scoop, you'll get your chance.) Oliver, you really should get a blog of your own. You write well, you're insightful and funny, and best of all, you seem to be on my side on many issues. Send me an email if you'd like some pointers on getting started with WordPress (or TypePad if it comes to that). I'd like to point out to the modest number of readers who often take things at face value that I haven't "fact-checked" Oliver's comment and I don't really know the parties involved. What the motivation, participation and liability of Jason Korman, Catherine Monahan and Hugh MacLeod may be, I don't know for sure. What I do know is that a few years ago when MacLeod was touting this unknown (to me) South African wine, I did extensive background reading and reference checking, because the South African wine industry has had a checkered past in labor relations. I learned then that the Stormhoek Vineyards are on the up-and-up. I have a friend in Berkeley who does fine interior work, studied with Japanese temple builders and all that, eyes and hands of a fine artist. I was salaried in those days, and I asked Nicholas about the uncertainties of running one's own business. He said that the best thing about being in business for yourself is that you can be choosy about who you will take as a client. I hope Hugh MacLeod understands this. It will be a shame if he ends up tarred with the same brush as Korman and Monahan. If the situation is as it appears to be, the best advice people could give Hugh right now is own advice: support the people who are making the goods. Stormhoek Vineyards brands will have global reach and value long after the euro-trash scavengers have left the carcass of the British Stormhoek brand. I think the SPAM algorithm also counts links, Oliver. I found your contribution in my moderation queue this morning. Thank you for the extensive comment! Scoop Fisker couldn’t have done as well. (Sorry Scoop, you’ll get your chance.) Oliver, you really should get a blog of your own. You write well, you’re insightful and funny, and best of all, you seem to be on my side on many issues. Send me an email if you’d like some pointers on getting started with WordPress (or TypePad if it comes to that).

I’d like to point out to the modest number of readers who often take things at face value that I haven’t “fact-checked” Oliver’s comment and I don’t really know the parties involved. What the motivation, participation and liability of Jason Korman, Catherine Monahan and Hugh MacLeod may be, I don’t know for sure. What I do know is that a few years ago when MacLeod was touting this unknown (to me) South African wine, I did extensive background reading and reference checking, because the South African wine industry has had a checkered past in labor relations. I learned then that the Stormhoek Vineyards are on the up-and-up.

I have a friend in Berkeley who does fine interior work, studied with Japanese temple builders and all that, eyes and hands of a fine artist. I was salaried in those days, and I asked Nicholas about the uncertainties of running one’s own business. He said that the best thing about being in business for yourself is that you can be choosy about who you will take as a client. I hope Hugh MacLeod understands this. It will be a shame if he ends up tarred with the same brush as Korman and Monahan. If the situation is as it appears to be, the best advice people could give Hugh right now is own advice: support the people who are making the goods. Stormhoek Vineyards brands will have global reach and value long after the euro-trash scavengers have left the carcass of the British Stormhoek brand.

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By: Oliver Shulman http://listics.com/200803103984#comment-53569 Oliver Shulman Tue, 11 Mar 2024 10:49:10 +0000 http://listics.com/200803103984#comment-53569 I've spent some time going over some of the posts lamenting the collapse of Orbital, the U.K. distributor for Stormhoek. These posts seem to focus on what a shame it is, can wine be marketed on the internet, etc. and the comments are peppered with comments for people who work for Jason Korman in the U.K., notably Catherine Monahan, self-described Marketing and Sales Manager at Orbital Wine, which (as you point out) went under and was recently sold to the South African Co. Origin for an undisclosed sum. I find it strange and a tad disconcerting that there have been no postings or twitters, to my knowledge, by Hugh MacLeod who was instrumental in getting Stormhoek off the ground and on the map in the U.K. and blogosphere in general, and who was extremely boastful about his "un-orthadox" marketing techniques whilst in the process. His current silence about the situation seems indicative of something fishy, as he is anything but well known for being discreet and makes a continual point of espousing transparency, in line with being the Cluetrain evangelist that he purports to be. I can only imagine that it's Jason Korman who is holding the purse strings and MacLeod's recent, very public, meltdown may have something to do with this situation. It is public record*** that Korman is no stranger to the courts in London concerning the wine trade and trademarking in general, having been the loser in several lawsuits. This "unfortunate" bankruptcy of Orbital could be just one more piece of the overall pattern of "business as usual" for Jason Korman. Of course, this is all conjecture on my part, having to rely on information available on the internet and base my opinion on what I find, as no real explanation has come out. I do expect the truth will come out eventually. I fear it will not be pretty. This situation seems to leave Graham Knox holding the bag, as it were. I imagine that the now defunct Orbital will not be honouring any debt they have to him. Big Love indeed. "I can only suspect mismanagement, greed or arrogance in some of the dealings (on the part of Orbital) -" : http://tiny.cc/WETUz "Orbital CEO Jason Korman, who was involved in the negotiations but would not disclose information about the other suitors or the sums, may remain connected with the Stormhoek brand. 'I have offered to assist Origin, if that's what they want,' he said. 'What they do with the brand in the medium term is a decision they have to make. They can either turn it into a straightforward trading brand, or keep up the interesting marketing strategy that we developed.' Stormhoek made its name in 2024 by harnessing the then-new concept of viral marketing via the internet, and became one of the top-selling South African brands." : http://tiny.cc/dITMh In the midst of writing this comment I came across this post which seems to be getting closer to any "truth" about the situation that I've seen so far: http://tiny.cc/wDHeY I hope we get to the bottom of this and people are not taken in by Jason Korman's shenanigans. It will be interesting to see if Hugh MacLeod continues to work for this Suit disguised in ridiculous American prep-school garb, who obviously has no intention of honouring his debts to Stormhoek ZA and plans to proceed marketing some other wine under the Stormhoek name in the U.K. whilst answering that old Socratic question: "Why does a dog lick his balls?". *** http://tiny.cc/prtal http://tiny.cc/TfCeX (Just two of the lawsuits concerning wine that Korman has lost in the U.K. alone.) I think it's also important to know that the real Stormhoek blog is: www.stormhoek.co.za and the False Stormhoek Blog (still maintained and spun by Korman et al) is stormhoek.com. I will have no truck with someone who bamboozles a small business man in the name of greed. (I've chosen not to embed the links as I have had problems with WP putting my comments in the spam bin when there are too many links. Thanks, and sorry for being so long-winded. Perhaps I should attempt a blog? :-) I’ve spent some time going over some of the posts lamenting the collapse of Orbital, the U.K. distributor for Stormhoek. These posts seem to focus on what a shame it is, can wine be marketed on the internet, etc. and the comments are peppered with comments for people who work for Jason Korman in the U.K., notably Catherine Monahan, self-described Marketing and Sales Manager at Orbital Wine, which (as you point out) went under and was recently sold to the South African Co. Origin for an undisclosed sum.

I find it strange and a tad disconcerting that there have been no postings or twitters, to my knowledge, by Hugh MacLeod who was instrumental in getting Stormhoek off the ground and on the map in the U.K. and blogosphere in general, and who was extremely boastful about his “un-orthadox” marketing techniques whilst in the process. His current silence about the situation seems indicative of something fishy, as he is anything but well known for being discreet and makes a continual point of espousing transparency, in line with being the Cluetrain evangelist that he purports to be.

I can only imagine that it’s Jason Korman who is holding the purse strings and MacLeod’s recent, very public, meltdown may have something to do with this situation. It is public record*** that Korman is no stranger to the courts in London concerning the wine trade and trademarking in general, having been the loser in several lawsuits. This “unfortunate” bankruptcy of Orbital could be just one more piece of the overall pattern of “business as usual” for Jason Korman.

Of course, this is all conjecture on my part, having to rely on information available on the internet and base my opinion on what I find, as no real explanation has come out. I do expect the truth will come out eventually. I fear it will not be pretty.

This situation seems to leave Graham Knox holding the bag, as it were. I imagine that the now defunct Orbital will not be honouring any debt they have to him. Big Love indeed.

“I can only suspect mismanagement, greed or arrogance in some of the dealings (on the part of Orbital) -” :
http://tiny.cc/WETUz

“Orbital CEO Jason Korman, who was involved in the negotiations but would not disclose information about the other suitors or the sums, may remain connected with the Stormhoek brand.

‘I have offered to assist Origin, if that’s what they want,’ he said.

‘What they do with the brand in the medium term is a decision they have to make. They can either turn it into a straightforward trading brand, or keep up the interesting marketing strategy that we developed.’

Stormhoek made its name in 2024 by harnessing the then-new concept of viral marketing via the internet, and became one of the top-selling South African brands.” :
http://tiny.cc/dITMh

In the midst of writing this comment I came across this post which seems to be getting closer to any “truth” about the situation that I’ve seen so far:
http://tiny.cc/wDHeY

I hope we get to the bottom of this and people are not taken in by Jason Korman’s shenanigans. It will be interesting to see if Hugh MacLeod continues to work for this Suit disguised in ridiculous American prep-school garb, who obviously has no intention of honouring his debts to Stormhoek ZA and plans to proceed marketing some other wine under the Stormhoek name in the U.K. whilst answering that old Socratic question: “Why does a dog lick his balls?”.

***
http://tiny.cc/prtal
http://tiny.cc/TfCeX
(Just two of the lawsuits concerning wine that Korman has lost in the U.K. alone.)

I think it’s also important to know that the real Stormhoek blog is: http://www.stormhoek.co.za and the False Stormhoek Blog (still maintained and spun by Korman et al) is stormhoek.com. I will have no truck with someone who bamboozles a small business man in the name of greed.

(I’ve chosen not to embed the links as I have had problems with WP putting my comments in the spam bin when there are too many links. Thanks, and sorry for being so long-winded. Perhaps I should attempt a blog? :-)

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