Comments on: Wisconsin for Obama http://listics.com/200802123941 We're beginning to notice some improvement. Thu, 11 Feb 2024 05:48:58 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.7 By: Doug Alder http://listics.com/200802123941/comment-page-1#comment-53113 Thu, 14 Feb 2024 05:42:40 +0000 http://listics.com/200802123941#comment-53113 Frank I think you will find Sara Robinson’s article tonight very interesting – http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2008/02/cult-of-obama.html (it’s not what you might think :)) I was particularly struck by her observation

So if Obamamania doesn’t come close to making the cut as a “cult,” then just what the hell is going on there?

What’s going on is that we’ve finally got a Democratic candidate who understands exactly how the Republicans did it. As I pointed out my very first week on this blog, the GOP didn’t come to power by talking about plans and policies; they did it by using strongly emotional appeals that grabbed people by the gut and didn’t let them go. Theirs was never a movement based on reason. It was, from the very beginning, a movement of hearts and souls. And it was that deep, emotionally sustaining commitment that drew people in so deeply that they were willing to give 25 years of their lives to bringing about the New World Order their leaders promised them. We may hate what they’ve accomplished — but we’re never going to be able to do better until we can inspire that same kind of passion for change.

And Obama’s doing just that. He’s tapped into a deeply pressurized seam of repressed fury within the American electorate, and he’s giving it voice, a focus, and an outlet. Are the results scary? You bet: these people want change on a scale that much of the status quo should find terrifying. Are they unreasoning? The followers may be — but as long as their leader keeps a cool head, that’s not as much of a problem right now as we might think; and the heat will dissipate naturally in time. Is this kind of devotion even appropriate? You bet. You don’t get the kind of deep-level change we need without first exposing and channeling people’s deep discontent. Obama’s change talk may be too vague for most people’s tastes (including mine); but the fact is that if we’re serious about enacting a progressive agenda, rousing people’s deepest dreams and desires and mobilizing that energy is exactly how it’s going to happen. And Obama’s the first candidate we’ve had in a generation who really, truly gets this.

I’m particularly glad, at this point in time, that I am not an American as I would have to vote and that would require me to choose between Clinton and Obama and I truly don’t know who would be best. All I do know is that either one will be better than McCain or any one else the GOP could sally forth with.

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By: Frank Paynter http://listics.com/200802123941/comment-page-1#comment-53111 Thu, 14 Feb 2024 04:04:35 +0000 http://listics.com/200802123941#comment-53111 I was an early member of MoveOn, committed to influencing the round head bullies on the right to just get over the blow-job thing and Move On. Bill Clinton was just about everything I’d want in a President and I have little doubt that Hillary would or will perform as well or better in the office. But I disagree with Joe Wilson that “2008 is not the year for transcendental transformation. The task for the next administration will be to repair the damage done by eight years of radical rule.” If not now, when? Obama suggests that we can choose to play the game or end it. I want to end it. In the Wisconsin primary I’m letting idealism trump pragmatic analysis, the same kind of idealism that got John Kennedy elected.

if Hillary Clinton is nominated, I will support her campaign and vote for her in November, but I hope Obama is nominated.

Former Ambassador Wilson owes the Clintons a lot, and he and his wife, Valerie Plame, share the Clinton experience in being pwned by the radical right. That, I think, colors his support for Senator Clinton. His partisanship does the Democratic Party great harm, because it would be stupid indeed to undermine either candidate to the advantage of the other. But Wilson and his wife were and likely are covert operatives, so why should we listen to them, even if once they seemed to be on our side? The enemy of my enemy is the enemy of my enemy. Is Joe Wilson my friend, or the friend of any progressive idealist?

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By: Doug Alder http://listics.com/200802123941/comment-page-1#comment-53102 Wed, 13 Feb 2024 21:07:51 +0000 http://listics.com/200802123941#comment-53102 what troubles me about Obama is that he really doesn’t deal in specifics.

That’s why we have to put an end to the division and distraction in Washington, so that we can unite this nation around a common purpose, a higher purpose.

Really? Just how do you plan to do that? That’s simply not a game the GOP plays. They do not, have not and will not compromise because they know they get their way, at least substantially so, if they don’t.

As Ambassador Wilson said today

Contrary to the myth of his campaign, 2024 is not the year for transcendental transformation. The task for the next administration will be to repair the damage done by eight years of radical rule. And the choice for Americans is clear: four more years of corrupt Republican rule, senseless wars, evisceration of the Constitution, emptying of the national treasury — or rebuilding our government and our national reputation, piece by piece. Obama’s overtures to Republicans, or “Obamacans” as the Senator calls them, is a substitute for true national unity based on a substantive program. His marginal appeals have marginally helped him in caucuses in Republican states that Democrats won’t win in the general election. But his vapid rhetoric will not withstand the winds of November. His efforts will be correctly seen by the Republican leadership as a sign of weakness to be exploited. While disaffected Democrats may long for comity in our politics after years of being harangued and belittled by the right wing echo chamber, the Rovians currently promoting Obama are looking to destroy him should he become the nominee. Obama’s claim to float uniquely above the fray and avoid polarization will be short-lived. He is no less mortal than any other Democrat — Michael Dukakis, Al Gore, John Kerry — all untouched at the beginning of their campaigns and all mauled by the end. We should never forget recent history.

As much as I dislike her I think he may be right and for this election Hillary may be the better choice.

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By: tamarika http://listics.com/200802123941/comment-page-1#comment-53097 Wed, 13 Feb 2024 15:06:23 +0000 http://listics.com/200802123941#comment-53097 I had a feeling you were there! As I watched it I murmured softly, Frank, are you there?

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By: Frank Paynter http://listics.com/200802123941/comment-page-1#comment-53092 Wed, 13 Feb 2024 13:52:29 +0000 http://listics.com/200802123941#comment-53092 I was there. Just uploaded a bunch of snapshots to FlickR. They’re not that great, but they give you a sense of the full house at the Kohl Center, the support Obama has in Wisconsin (Governor, and mayors of Madison and Milwaukee have endorsed him).

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fpaynter/

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By: Charles Follymacher http://listics.com/200802123941/comment-page-1#comment-53090 Wed, 13 Feb 2024 13:37:33 +0000 http://listics.com/200802123941#comment-53090 man, that’s hawt. so you were there, frank? *shoots jealousy beams at frank, but not so many that his heart goes all wokka-wokka again*

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