Comments on: Piling on… http://listics.com/20060902540 The Internet has a great future behind it... --Jon Crowcroft Tue, 16 Mar 2010 00:19:26 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: oohboy http://listics.com/20060902540/comment-page-1#comment-4505 oohboy Tue, 05 Sep 2006 21:21:09 +0000 http://listics.com/20060902540#comment-4505 This argument, that comes up with EVERY conference, only has value in raising y'alls blood pressure. Shelley should just hold her own conference so that she can get it perfect. She's very good at shooting her mouth off, but what does she do, besides write books? That I can never find at the bookstore? Frank, you just had a post about all the good men. SHAME on you for "piling on". And that "picky picky" is way beneath you. and Shame on me for enjoying y'all acting like a bunch of kindygartners. Sheesh! This argument, that comes up with EVERY conference, only has value in raising y’alls blood pressure.

Shelley should just hold her own conference so that she can get it perfect. She’s very good at shooting her mouth off, but what does she do, besides write books? That I can never find at the bookstore?

Frank, you just had a post about all the good men. SHAME on you for “piling on”. And that “picky picky” is way beneath you.

and Shame on me for enjoying y’all acting like a bunch of kindygartners. Sheesh!

]]> By: Frank Paynter http://listics.com/20060902540/comment-page-1#comment-4479 Frank Paynter Mon, 04 Sep 2006 12:08:38 +0000 http://listics.com/20060902540#comment-4479 Picky,picky. Picky,picky.

]]> By: Kathy Sierra http://listics.com/20060902540/comment-page-1#comment-4475 Kathy Sierra Mon, 04 Sep 2006 05:13:58 +0000 http://listics.com/20060902540#comment-4475 I actually didn't say, "leave me out of it" -- I said I wished that Tara had not brought my name up in the strange context of her discussion with Shelley. I actually didn’t say, “leave me out of it” — I said I wished that Tara had not brought my name up in the strange context of her discussion with Shelley.

]]> By: Frank Paynter http://listics.com/20060902540/comment-page-1#comment-4370 Frank Paynter Sat, 02 Sep 2006 23:25:13 +0000 http://listics.com/20060902540#comment-4370 Hey Zoli... here's something for you. It's really extraneous to the current conversation. It relates to your non-sequitur <a href="http://www.zoliblog.com/blog/_archives/2006/8/30/2280085.html" rel="nofollow">Katy Couric post</a>. You see, I didn't find that funny, but I did find it compelling evidence that the tech-feminist pressure that's being applied is well placed, and that you and your ilk need some remedial training in just what it means to be a human being. <a href="http://www.beloblog.com/ProJo_Blogs/shenews/archives/2006/09/when_women_who.html" rel="nofollow">"All your balls are belong to us."</a> I hope your outre little Office 2.0 kaffee klatch is seriously boycotted and girlcotted too. The brass ring entrepreneurial bubble-blowing nonsense you're involved with needs to be stifled. The serious conversations around technology and product development need to be opened. My first clue regarding the poison in your kool-aid? Arrington's involvement. The program is tainted. Call it off. <img src="http://listics.com/images/finger.jpg"/> (Thanks to <a href="http://www.thealders.net/blogs/2006/09/02/sometimes/" rel="nofollow">Doug Alder</a> for the image.) Hey Zoli… here’s something for you. It’s really extraneous to the current conversation. It relates to your non-sequitur Katy Couric post. You see, I didn’t find that funny, but I did find it compelling evidence that the tech-feminist pressure that’s being applied is well placed, and that you and your ilk need some remedial training in just what it means to be a human being. “All your balls are belong to us.” I hope your outre little Office 2.0 kaffee klatch is seriously boycotted and girlcotted too. The brass ring entrepreneurial bubble-blowing nonsense you’re involved with needs to be stifled. The serious conversations around technology and product development need to be opened. My first clue regarding the poison in your kool-aid? Arrington’s involvement. The program is tainted. Call it off.

(Thanks to Doug Alder for the image.)

]]> By: Shelley http://listics.com/20060902540/comment-page-1#comment-4362 Shelley Sat, 02 Sep 2006 22:33:11 +0000 http://listics.com/20060902540#comment-4362 From what Ismael has said in emails and elsewhere, most of the speakers were invited, based on who he knew and recommendations from a group of other people (all men, acknowledged and given credit). The speaker list was compiled before there was any public release about the conference, which means the only people who knew about it were more or less word of mouth. As for more women, an all male group begats all male groups. Try moving outside your comfort zone. From what Ismael has said in emails and elsewhere, most of the speakers were invited, based on who he knew and recommendations from a group of other people (all men, acknowledged and given credit). The speaker list was compiled before there was any public release about the conference, which means the only people who knew about it were more or less word of mouth.

As for more women, an all male group begats all male groups. Try moving outside your comfort zone.

]]> By: Zoli Erdos http://listics.com/20060902540/comment-page-1#comment-4353 Zoli Erdos Sat, 02 Sep 2006 21:31:26 +0000 http://listics.com/20060902540#comment-4353 Frank, so far the only promotion the conference received was through blogs. Ismael was quite surprised at the wildfire effect and the rapid rate of new speaker sign-ups -this was not a long process as some would indicate, it all happened in two weeks or so. The signups show - and I think you yourself would come to the same conclusion - that most people who are active in this area read blogs, independent of sex. The first real PR push, otside the blogosphere is planned for this week, in the form of a press release. A few of us (the "Editorial Board") were helping Ismael plan the sessions, getting together for the first time last Thurday. Several names on the speaker list were new to us, that was really the day we assessed the list, after the 2-week blitz, and one of the conclusions was that it would be nice to have more female speakers, so we started to think who else to actively invite. Not as a responsibilty, but as a desire. You can see the result, we now have more female speakers, and Ismael continues to work on it. But also consider the speaker's background: - mostly CEO's of startups in related areas - analyst / press types Some will fly in, many are from the SF Bay Area.. combine those factors and you get the demographic we currently have. FYI, somewhat unrelated; I am moderating regular VC Breakfast sessions where we get up to 10 entrepreneurs for a round-table with a VC. Most of the time it's an all-male group, occasionally 1 or 2 (rarely) woman. I have no way to know who comes until registration closes the night before, what am I supposed to do? Again, a reflection of Bay Area entrepreneurial demographics. Frank, so far the only promotion the conference received was through blogs. Ismael was quite surprised at the wildfire effect and the rapid rate of new speaker sign-ups -this was not a long process as some would indicate, it all happened in two weeks or so.
The signups show – and I think you yourself would come to the same conclusion – that most people who are active in this area read blogs, independent of sex.
The first real PR push, otside the blogosphere is planned for this week, in the form of a press release.

A few of us (the “Editorial Board”) were helping Ismael plan the sessions, getting together for the first time last Thurday. Several names on the speaker list were new to us, that was really the day we assessed the list, after the 2-week blitz, and one of the conclusions was that it would be nice to have more female speakers, so we started to think who else to actively invite. Not as a responsibilty, but as a desire. You can see the result, we now have more female speakers, and Ismael continues to work on it. But also consider the speaker’s background:
– mostly CEO’s of startups in related areas
– analyst / press types
Some will fly in, many are from the SF Bay Area.. combine those factors and you get the demographic we currently have.

FYI, somewhat unrelated; I am moderating regular VC Breakfast sessions where we get up to 10 entrepreneurs for a round-table with a VC. Most of the time it’s an all-male group, occasionally 1 or 2 (rarely) woman. I have no way to know who comes until registration closes the night before, what am I supposed to do? Again, a reflection of Bay Area entrepreneurial demographics.

]]> By: Frank Paynter http://listics.com/20060902540/comment-page-1#comment-4351 Frank Paynter Sat, 02 Sep 2006 17:37:23 +0000 http://listics.com/20060902540#comment-4351 Zoli, I can accept that there was an open and non-discriminatory (vis-a-vis selection) entrance opportunity, but I think there are a couple of complicating factors that should be acknowledged and addressed. Given the lack of diversity in the people who signed up to present, as the list began to fill out it became the organizers' affirmative responsibility to promote a more diverse base of presenters. The event can deny this responsibility of course, and if they choose to deny it, then people of conscience will likely choose to withdraw from participation. With open registration, you have to be aware of the opportunity before you can be said to have had it. How did you make women aware of the opportunity that so many of them chose to ignore? Or are they unrepresented because they weren't aware of the opportunity early-on? Zoli, I can accept that there was an open and non-discriminatory (vis-a-vis selection) entrance opportunity, but I think there are a couple of complicating factors that should be acknowledged and addressed. Given the lack of diversity in the people who signed up to present, as the list began to fill out it became the organizers’ affirmative responsibility to promote a more diverse base of presenters. The event can deny this responsibility of course, and if they choose to deny it, then people of conscience will likely choose to withdraw from participation.

With open registration, you have to be aware of the opportunity before you can be said to have had it. How did you make women aware of the opportunity that so many of them chose to ignore? Or are they unrepresented because they weren’t aware of the opportunity early-on?

]]> By: Zoli Erdos http://listics.com/20060902540/comment-page-1#comment-4350 Zoli Erdos Sat, 02 Sep 2006 17:00:31 +0000 http://listics.com/20060902540#comment-4350 Frank, you hit the nail on the head with the title: "piling on". As in echoing what other said, without any fact-checking. The speaker list was not "assembled" the organizer called for speaker application, and these are the people that came forward.  Tara's post title also hit the nail on the head: <a href="http://www.horsepigcow.com/2006/08/okayrather-than-just-complain.html" rel="nofollow">Okay...rather than just complain</a>... but she forgot to complete the sentence: <a href="http://www.office20con.com/speakers_registration.html" rel="nofollow">apply</a>.  With open registration if you don't sign up, you cab't really complain of being excluded Frank, you hit the nail on the head with the title: “piling on”. As in echoing what other said, without any fact-checking. The speaker list was not “assembled” the organizer called for speaker application, and these are the people that came forward.  Tara’s post title also hit the nail on the head: Okay…rather than just complain… but she forgot to complete the sentence: apply. 

With open registration if you don’t sign up, you cab’t really complain of being excluded

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