Comments on: Core Values at BloggerCon http://listics.com/20060624331 Frank Paynter's Voice and Vision... Tue, 07 Nov 2024 13:23:39 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.2 by: McD http://listics.com/20060624331#comment-1114 Tue, 27 Jun 2024 23:53:49 +0000 http://listics.com/20060624331#comment-1114 Frank, Shelley, After being labeled as a "First Class Troll" on the IRC channel, I started to think about how that label is starting to be used. Mike Arrington's session at BloggerCon on "Core Values" reminded me of Mena Trott's speech at the "Six Apart" Conference in Europe... when Ben Metcalfe was called out with a general "WFT?" introduction for HIS backchannel opinions. Mike and Mena are just begging for someone to help stem the tide against the increasing rise in incivility in blog comments. Mike makes his case by anecdotally stating he's had a long year getting real hate stuff and troll comments. He then equates these comments to someone "slapping you in the face". Mike makes the case that this happens because there are no "Core Values" for conduct on the internet. My experience with Mike, as I've commented on his blog, is that he probably does get a larger volume of negative comments than he would like he because he doesn't take any criticism well. Each of his replies to a thoughtful, well meaning criticism discounts, ignores, obfuscates or the ideas presented in the comment. That can be a recipe for a comment pit that you don't want to re-visit. It's like a feedback loop that generates heat, noise or ugliness. I blogged a comment I left on Mike's blog regarding the Flickr vs Zoomr issue and Mike just deleted it as the efforts of a Troll. So, I can see the impact on dialogue when the concept of a troll is misapplied. It's worth noting which bloggers have turned off comments... many turned them off in the same fashion that they turned off their ability to listen to other points of view. I whole heartedly support the removal of hateful comments from anyone blog's or the suspension of comments on a blog post that escalates into an ugly, unresolvable argument but I have reservations about an A-List blogger that fundamentally can't tell the difference between a troll and a critic. WWFD? Keep the comments on and when he upset by them: seek a key learning from the exercise. Bless you, Frank. Now that Shelley shut down it's nice to have someplace I can comment without fear that my words will just disappear... and that the hist will ask the internet to "feel their pain" and that they might not be able to continue much longer with all this hate increasing... exponentially. I think Mike is genuinely disturbed by the comments... he wants everyone to be nice to each other but he can't seem to see the roots of a lot of the frustration based upon a misuse of this wonderful medium to help people see and act upon the truth. Did I just call Mike Arrington a liar? No. I'm suggesting that he try really hard to see other points of view. Poking Flickr didn't cause a rash of hostility: maligning Stewart Butterfield's Core Values did. Having the capacity to see that would help Mike enjoy the power of his blog more and more. Maybe Mike will become more like John C. Dvorak and just start these intense comment flurries and learn to play the crowd against itself. Somehow I don't think he can be that callous with the medium he's mastered. If he had a good friend to counsel him... he could be talked into seeing a bigger picture. I googled "Love Your Enemy" and fond a wealth of useful advice, including: In this world Hate never yet dispelled hate. Only love dispels hate. This is the law, Ancient and inexhaustible. - The Dhammapada I guess, that my little troll dropping for this day. Frank, Shelley,

After being labeled as a “First Class Troll” on the IRC channel, I started to think about how that label is starting to be used.

Mike Arrington’s session at BloggerCon on “Core Values” reminded me of Mena Trott’s speech at the “Six Apart” Conference in Europe… when Ben Metcalfe was called out with a general “WFT?” introduction for HIS backchannel opinions. Mike and Mena are just begging for someone to help stem the tide against the increasing rise in incivility in blog comments.

Mike makes his case by anecdotally stating he’s had a long year getting real hate stuff and troll comments. He then equates these comments to someone “slapping you in the face”.

Mike makes the case that this happens because there are no “Core Values” for conduct on the internet.

My experience with Mike, as I’ve commented on his blog, is that he probably does get a larger volume of negative comments than he would like he because he doesn’t take any criticism well. Each of his replies to a thoughtful, well meaning criticism discounts, ignores, obfuscates or the ideas presented in the comment. That can be a recipe for a comment pit that you don’t want to re-visit. It’s like a feedback loop that generates heat, noise or ugliness.

I blogged a comment I left on Mike’s blog regarding the Flickr vs Zoomr issue and Mike just deleted it as the efforts of a Troll.

So, I can see the impact on dialogue when the concept of a troll is misapplied. It’s worth noting which bloggers have turned off comments… many turned them off in the same fashion that they turned off their ability to listen to other points of view. I whole heartedly support the removal of hateful comments from anyone blog’s or the suspension of comments on a blog post that escalates into an ugly, unresolvable argument but I have reservations about an A-List blogger that fundamentally can’t tell the difference between a troll and a critic.

WWFD? Keep the comments on and when he upset by them: seek a key learning from the exercise.

Bless you, Frank. Now that Shelley shut down it’s nice to have someplace I can comment without fear that my words will just disappear… and that the hist will ask the internet to “feel their pain” and that they might not be able to continue much longer with all this hate increasing… exponentially.

I think Mike is genuinely disturbed by the comments… he wants everyone to be nice to each other but he can’t seem to see the roots of a lot of the frustration based upon a misuse of this wonderful medium to help people see and act upon the truth. Did I just call Mike Arrington a liar? No. I’m suggesting that he try really hard to see other points of view.

Poking Flickr didn’t cause a rash of hostility: maligning Stewart Butterfield’s Core Values did. Having the capacity to see that would help Mike enjoy the power of his blog more and more.

Maybe Mike will become more like John C. Dvorak and just start these intense comment flurries and learn to play the crowd against itself. Somehow I don’t think he can be that callous with the medium he’s mastered. If he had a good friend to counsel him… he could be talked into seeing a bigger picture.

I googled “Love Your Enemy” and fond a wealth of useful advice, including:

In this world
Hate never yet dispelled hate.
Only love dispels hate.
This is the law,
Ancient and inexhaustible.

- The Dhammapada

I guess, that my little troll dropping for this day.

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by: Frank Paynter http://listics.com/20060624331#comment-1057 Sun, 25 Jun 2024 17:29:18 +0000 http://listics.com/20060624331#comment-1057 proper as a turd in a punch bowl. proper as a turd in a punch bowl.

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by: Shelley http://listics.com/20060624331#comment-1054 Sun, 25 Jun 2024 12:20:41 +0000 http://listics.com/20060624331#comment-1054 Why Frank. How proper of you. Why Frank. How proper of you.

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by: Frank Paynter http://listics.com/20060624331#comment-1045 Sun, 25 Jun 2024 04:07:36 +0000 http://listics.com/20060624331#comment-1045 I will sort out some honest impressions and share them with you all tomorrow. I will sort out some honest impressions and share them with you all tomorrow.

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by: Shelley http://listics.com/20060624331#comment-1037 Sun, 25 Jun 2024 00:38:47 +0000 http://listics.com/20060624331#comment-1037 I would say that "let's all be nicer to each other" should start at home for Arrington. TechCrunch has been not a particularly nice publication recently. I'm listening to the wrap up. Didn't know it was the Dave Hour. My impression on this is that this was not a successful Bloggercon. Send email, you and McD, with all juicy details. I would say that “let’s all be nicer to each other” should start at home for Arrington. TechCrunch has been not a particularly nice publication recently.

I’m listening to the wrap up. Didn’t know it was the Dave Hour.

My impression on this is that this was not a successful Bloggercon.

Send email, you and McD, with all juicy details.

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